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2016 List Management Thread

Discussion in 'Richmond Ramblings' started by thebigricho, Jun 18, 2016.

  1. thebigricho

    thebigricho Loved Site Immortal

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    At the midway point of the season, it's time for my trademark to return.

    This thread is to discuss list changes going forward into next season.

    I should point out that I remain optimistic we will have a new coach to start next season and my list is based on that coach coming in with the expectation that we perform as required this year, ie top 4, and I am therefore basing my list management on that.

    If the new coach decides to rebuild or Hardwick is allowed to continue then obviously the scenario becomes quite different.

    I've split the list into 4 categories:

    Core players: Untouchable, failing a miracle offer, the sort only we are likely to offer.

    List players: Will remain on list but would consider the right trade, as opposed to seeking it.

    Trade bait: Players we actively seek to trade.

    Delist: Players whose time is up, regardless of any trade interest.

    Core players:

    Martin, Riewoldt, Deledio, Cotchin, Rance.

    No surprises there.

    List Players:

    Astbury, Batchelor, Conca, Chaplin, Drummond, Edwards, B. Ellis, C. Ellis, Griffiths, Grigg, Grimes, Lambert, Lloyd, Markov, McBean, McIntosh, Menadue, Miles, Morris, Rioli, Townsend, Vickery, Vlaustuin.

    Vickery and McBean may surprise here but I feel a new coach can produce with both. Chaplin is still our best option as a gorilla defender so gets another year. Morris I felt had done enough to show if he is used properly can be important, I also toyed with putting B. Ellis on the trade table.

    Trade Bait:

    Houli, Hunt, Yarran, Lennon

    First three have year(s) left contracted and would otherwise be seen below. Lennon will probably leave anyway so is a proactive one.

    Delist:

    Broad, Butler, Maric, McKenzie, A Moore, Elton, Hunt, Hampson

    The obvious one here is it cleans out our two ruck options but Maric is cooked and Hampson is hopeless. The others pick themselves and I would look at clearing Hunt's spot regardless of trade by paying out his contract. Broad and Butler both unlucky and would be considered for rookie spots.

    Rookies:
    Jayden Short - second year - Promoted
    Jason Castagna - Promoted
    Callum Moore - first year.
    Mabior Chol - first year.
    Adam Marcon - first year.
    Ivan Soldo - Promoted

    This would leave us with up to 5 draft picks, subject to any other trades we were able to do. We would need to secure a ready made ruckman via trade or free agency and hope that Soldo/Vickery/McBean/Griffiths could step up as a reserve.

    Our round one side would look something like:

    B:Grimes Chaplin Batchelor
    HB:Vlastuin Rance C. Ellis
    C: Drummond Martin B Ellis
    HF: Deledio Vickery Edwards
    F: Lloyd Riewoldt Lambert
    R: Zac Clarke Cotchin Miles

    Inter: McBean, Grigg, Rioli, Short
     
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  2. Black

    Black Loved Site Immortal

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    Not too bad mate but I'd make a couple of changes >>

    Firstly if you're gonna delist Hunt then it'll make it hard to trade him ;)

    Secondly , no AFL team will give us a brass razoo for Houli so he should be named among your delistings.

    Last but not least... Zac Clarke is a shitful player.
     
  3. Vines

    Vines Adored Site Immortal

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    So you've taken a step backwards with Chaplin, brought in a terrible ruckman to replace a mostly useless one, and done little else.
     
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  4. Vines

    Vines Adored Site Immortal

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    Also noticed you've dropped Griff...
    But it's poor form to criticise without solutions so...
    Core players yep, pretty obvious.
    List players. You would have to consider good trades for anyone on this list except Grimes. I'd add him to core list.
    The two that need to be shopped hard are B Ellis and Vickery. Griff could also be traded if he continues to add value and we are looking at Josh Jenkins.
    The Astbury trade opp has passed so he is locked into the second tall/lock down defender role with Chaplin gone (a year too late).

    Also, just delist Chaplin Batch and McBean.

    B: c Ellis Grimes Astbury
    HB:Vlastuin Rance McIntosh
    C: Grigg Martin Prestia
    HF: Deledio Riewoldt Edwards
    F: Lloyd Jenkins Lambert
    R: Hampson Cotchin Miles

    Inter: lennon, Rioli, conca, Griff
    Emg: J short, menadue, Drummond
     
  5. Broadsword

    Broadsword Revered

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    I think we should go for a "mini" rebuild. As Kirk Lazarus famously said, never go full rebuild. You'll go home empty-handed.



    Core players

    Riewoldt, Rance, Deledio, Martin, Cotchin

    List Players

    Edwards, Grigg, Lloyd, Yarran, Grimes, Griffiths, Lambert, Miles, Townsend, McIntosh, Vlastuin, Lennon, Rioli, McBean, Markov, Menadue, Drummond, C. Ellis

    Trade Bait

    Vickery, Astbury, B. Ellis, Conca, Houli

    Delist

    Maric, Chaplin, Morris, Hunt, A. Moore, Batchelor, Elton, Hampson, McKenzie, Butler, Broad

    Promote Short and Castagna.

    With rookies, that would clear out a third of the list in one year. We would be moving on all those players I feel will either not make it, are not up to standard or who we will get greater value from by way of a trade. We retain talent, youth and experience.
     
  6. terry31

    terry31 Revered

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    Very Close Tommy, I strongly suspect Brandon will be a must keep by seasons end. I wouldn't be getting rid of Houli as I think he will be a different player under a different coach. I would question Lloyd's inclusion in the team, like him, like his endeavour but doubt he would get a game in any other top side. Astbury, McIntosh, Hampson and Lambert are yet to convince me they can play in a grand final.
    But, lot's needs to happen in the near future, so exciting times ahead.
     
  7. Rumpole

    Rumpole Loved

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    @Broadsword I'd note that from the games I've seen McBean play in the 2s that he's a bit lucky to be a list player.
     
  8. Althom

    Althom Seriously Well Liked

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    Agreed, he's had ample opportunity to show some hunger for a chance and apart from the odd good game he basically appears to be too lazy. Should get what we can for him.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2016
  9. thebigricho

    thebigricho Loved Site Immortal

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    As I said, I'd delist Hunt if (when) there was no interest for him as a trade. The problem is he and Houli are contracted until 2017 so you can't afford to do it with both as it will count in the salary cap. Hunt is on less and less use so he goes and Houli stays. Another feather in Blair's cap.

    Clarke is just there as an example as he is a free agent, we need to do better but he is certainly an upgrade on Hampson.


    I don't see Chaplin as a step backwards, obviously. I think he joins the growing club of players that have had their careers sabotaged by Hardwick's inadequacies. His season has been derailed by the nonsense of playing forward in the preseason.

    Does he get exposed one-on-one? Absolutely but so do most defenders when things break down up the field, but when our defence works best Chaplin is in it.

    The reason I've done little else is I saw this list as top 4 material preseason and I still do. I believe a new coach could produce that with this side. It would be nice to add a Prestia etc but I'd be equally happy to go in with that set-up and land a free agent the following year when we would really be having a crack at a flag, as well as having an off-field set-up that might actually land a FA.

    He and Astbury are the unlucky ones in my set-up for sure but I give McBean and Chaplin first crack.


    I can't agree on McBean. If he has attitudinal issues I can quite understand. He is a victim of Hardwick's tendency to bash kids at selection and avoid any tough calls.

    McBean came into the side and was dropped the next week. Came back the following week and played a serviceable game, looked very good in patches and our forward structure looked much improved with him in it. He was then dropped the following week and never seen again.

    He has been badly managed and should certainly have played more games than he has. I'd like to see him have the chance to string some games together at AFL level and see what he can produce under a new coaching regime.
     
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  10. Althom

    Althom Seriously Well Liked

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    Could be but if his inconsistency and lack of intensity at VFL level is a result of bad management then he may be better off in an entirely new environment if Hardwick doesn't go. He's also still very much a stringbean so you've got to wonder what training regime they've got him on. Should have bulked up by now.
     
  11. Forbesy

    Forbesy Revered Assistant Coach

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    He was 84kg when drafted, now 94kg (202cm).
    As a comparison, his housemate (Joe Daniher) was 90kg when drafted, now 94kg (201cm).
    Same draft 2012.
     
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  12. amigo

    amigo Revered

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    There won't be a new coach next season. No way our board will extend his contract by two years, then sack him before he begins those 2 years.
     
  13. Althom

    Althom Seriously Well Liked

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    That puts their BMI at 23. Although BMI is not a great measure 23 is low for a professional athlete.
     
  14. 17Sash

    17Sash Seriously Well Liked

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    Core players IMHO
    Martin Miles Cotchin Rance Deledio Riewoldt Grimes Vlaustin Conca Hampson Griffiths Vickery B Ellis. I would like to recruit Membrey (St Kilda). He is strong, breaks through the half-back cordon, and slots goals from outside 50. Neade is a good player too. Noone would recruit Vickery. It would only smack of desperation to trade.
     
  15. Forbesy

    Forbesy Revered Assistant Coach

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    Same BMI as Jack Riewoldt.
    In any case, which part of McBean adding 10kg is not bulking up?
     
  16. Broadsword

    Broadsword Revered

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    Just one question, @thebigricho, if you rate the list as top four material, on what basis do you rate the list management so low?
     
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  17. Althom

    Althom Seriously Well Liked

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    Point taken, he just seems to me to be too easily pushed out of the contest. A bit like TV.
     
  18. thebigricho

    thebigricho Loved Site Immortal

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    That's a very fair question, Broady.

    My criticism has been around three areas. The tendency to draft proven mediocre players from other clubs, a lack of ability to draft deeply (below pick 30 and in the rookie draft) and the impotence of our free agency.

    I see us as currently being able to push for a top four spot more so due to the pure talent of the top half dozen players on the list than anything else but I see it as being a Western Bulldogs under Eade style push without possibility of a flag.

    If those areas had been corrected and we had Treloar or another free agent gun on our list, Zac Smith instead of Hampson and had produced a player or two from deep picks/rookies and I think we would really have a shot.
     
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  19. Barrel

    Barrel Revered

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    Delist/retire:
    Chaplin
    Maric
    Hunt
    Butler
    Elton

    Promote:
    Short
    Castagna

    Trade out:
    Vickery
    Brandon Ellis
    1st round pick

    Trade in:
    Billy Longer/Jarrod Witts
    Dion Prestia/Brad Crouch (or both)

    Also take a look at Alan Toovey, Chris Mayne and Neville Jetta as free agents. Hurley and Hibberd would also be nice. Obviously a couple more would need to be chopped from our list...
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2016
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  20. Vosstiger

    Vosstiger Revered Assistant Coach Coterie Member

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    I'll post a full list tomorrow when I have time. Good posting from all above.

    I have to stick up for my man Butler however. He is in year 2. Lost all last year to a persisting knee injury which he had when drafted. Has been the travelling Emergency once this year but has let himself down with 2 suspensions. He was brought to the club to hopefully play the Jake King role. So on half a year really I wonder how many who have him delisted have even seen him play.
     
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