2017 Trade Talk

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bagwarn

Rookie
Apr 12, 2014
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Go easy here. We won the PREMIERSHIP. Tex Walker is not a (whatever you called him). He's a top bloke (Norwood FC supporter) and a good footballer. He sees it the way the Crows supporters saw it. If Vlastuin told the club he was leaving pre-Grand Final I don't think we'd like him for planning to leave either. I'm sure a few of the players would be confused too. Jake Lever was a little selfish for making it known that he was leaving pre-Grand Final. The club should have waited until after the Grand Final before officially asking Jake Lever what his plans were. The broken club unity leading into a Grand Final that an exiting Jake Lever brought to the Crows moral was selfish. I'll stand up for the big Texan (well held by Astbury on September 30 - that's the main thing). He is the captain of the club that has had to weather the storm of MANY talented players exiting. Dangerfield, Gunston, Davis . . .
Yes, we did win the PREMIERSHIP mate, yet I struggle with what some people think is acceptable. I respect your advocacy for Walker and I hope you see that I am doing the same for the minority and the fringe member Lever.

No 'top blokes' carry on the way he has. His ego has been significantly checked in the past month and perhaps this will lead to a rebalancing in the man, possibly a level of humility and the capacity to reflect.

I reckon the Adelaide football bubble would be similar to Melbourne and I think that some players can start to believe their own hype. Weather what storm - because of players leaving? You can't make anybody do anything. To try to intimidate (allegedly) and ostracise one of their 'valued' players because he wasn't in line with what they wanted is a joke! It will come back to bite them as i would suggest that people will think twice before considering going there.

Part of the reason everyone loves Dusty, he is humble, cares about the people around him, accepts others for who they are and walks his own path. Nobody is suggesting that Tex wouldn't be disappointed, but the forementioned behaviours provide a very poor message of the AFC and Walker.

The measure of the man will be in how he comes back from a very ordinary period and how he puts in practice what he has learned from his mistakes. We will see, but he could take a lesson in A-grade humility and vulnerability exhibited by D Hardwick this year.
 

Gracie

Site Immortal
Jun 1, 2005
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I find Adelaide's and Walker's stance bemusing.

They had no problem in trying to accommodate Gibbs when he wanted to go home.

Before that they also had no problem when Scott Thompson wanted to go home.

Short memories
 

bagwarn

Rookie
Apr 12, 2014
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I alluded to this before but now it is public knowledge I'll go further.

Josh is a nice kid and a great talent but he has much bigger issues than footy at the moment. I'm not sure it would be a responsible move by any club to draft him.
He would be great for us. Needs a stable and supportive environment close to friends and family and could turn out to be the buy of the century. Would like to see us punt on him, but don't think we will be so risky post Yarran.
 

TigerHardwick

Listed Player
Sep 26, 2005
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Saad to bombers for future 2nd round

Weller from Freo wants to Suns
Swallow is enquiring about move to suns to play with brother
Word is we’re still keen on Schache

Miles is most likely to accept our 1 year offer unless someone offers him a great deal
 

Gracie

Site Immortal
Jun 1, 2005
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Some suggestion Miles and pick #17 to Brisbane for Schache and pick #42

Take some one like Balta at #15 and pick up Naish with #42 plus the two third round picks

Makes good trading sense to me. Basically three first round picks there abouts.
 

Vines

Site Immortal
Jun 9, 2008
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Some suggestion Miles and pick #17 to Brisbane for Schache and pick #42

Take some one like Balta at #15 and pick up Naish with #42 plus the two third round picks

Makes good trading sense to me. Basically three first round picks there abouts.
McGuane tweeted yesterday that teams should steer well clear of Schache. Fired off a bunch of reasons without being overly personal.
 

Gracie

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Jun 1, 2005
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McGuane tweeted yesterday that teams should steer well clear of Schache. Fired off a bunch of reasons without being overly personal.
Interesting. As I have said before having Leppa gives us a bit of inside info on the kid. Trust he will offer his advice.

What is McGuane up to these days??
 

Vines

Site Immortal
Jun 9, 2008
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Interesting. As I have said before having Leppa gives us a bit of inside info on the kid. Trust he will offer his advice.

What is McGuane up to these days??
Been coaching Keilor for about 10 years I think.
 

Crusher

Site Immortal
Jan 15, 2008
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This from a SEN facebook post,
“He’s a forward that needed lead up space, he had a great aerobic capacity, he would run defenders off, he relished the space that was afforded to him...it’s misleading form due to that density rule,” - Mick McGuane.

Has the TAC Cup's implementation of zoning hurt the Lions forward's development?
 

Gracie

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Jun 1, 2005
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McGuane tweeted yesterday that teams should steer well clear of Schache. Fired off a bunch of reasons without being overly personal.
Here is McGuane's full comments:

COLLINGWOOD legend Michael McGuane has put forward a damning assessment of Brisbane forward Josh Schache.

The Magpies great says it was foreseeable years ago that the former No. 2 draft pick would struggle at AFL level — and believes the Lions were misled by a TAC Cup rule technicality that blinded AFL recruiters to the power forward’s terminal shortcomings.

McGuane on Tuesday told SEN Breakfast the Lions bought a lemon when they recruited Schache off the back of his extraordinary performances in Victoria’s U18 TAC Cup competition.

TAC Cup football is played under density zoning rules designed to avoid players bunching around contests.

Under the density rules, two key forwards and two key defenders must remain inside the 50m arc even when the opposition has the ball in the other half of the ground.

McGuane says the rules allowed Schache to benefit from extra space inside his forward 50 and concealed his inability to compete when outnumbered in pack marking contests.

He said the rule hoodwinked the Lions.

He also appeared to accuse Schache of running scared in AFL footy.

“You watch him in a contest at AFL level, he reaches for the footy at times, he turns his body sideways, he avoids contact,” McGuane said.

“Now that may be a subconscious thing that can be clearly removed from his game — and I hope so at 199cm. He needs to be smashing packs and either marking the ball to creating crumbing opportunities for his smalls.”

He said Schache is nothing like the star power forwards of recent times because he hasn’t put his body on the line for his teammates.

“They were all forward that defenders feared and teammates could trust and I reckon defenders are content going back into his space knowing that full well it won’t be them that shirks the contest,” McGuane said.

“He’s a forward who was an absolute star at TAC Cup level,” McGuane said.

“He’s a forward who needed lead-up space. He had a great aerobic capacity. He would run defenders off. He rallies to space that was afforded to him and I think it’s misleading form due to that density rule.

He said Schache’s struggles to take just two contested marks in 10 games this season can’t be ignored.

He said he would not go anywhere near Schache this trade period.

“I just don’t like what I see from the competitive standpoint,” he said.

“Josh Schache, he was classified as the next Jonathan Brown, he was going to be their saviour.

“This year, when you get to the pointy end of the season, to say that fatigue was the reason he didn’t play in the NEAFL finals campaign, I just really struggle to comprehend that.

“Lets put that into perspective, he’s 20, he played only 10 AFL games this year. The pointy end of the season is about winning a premiership and as far as I’m concerned fatigue becomes a distant memory when a grand final was there to be won. The mind has to take control. There has to be more to it.”
 

Gracie

Site Immortal
Jun 1, 2005
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Interesting McGuane focuses on this year especially with the 2 contested marks comment.

Schache's 2016 return was good with 21 contested marks from 68. Contested possessions in 2016 were also ok at 66 to 82 uncontested. 2017 was well down at 28 to 64.

Hipwood went at 7 contested marks out of 30 in 2016 and 22 out of 59 in 2017.

Our own Jack Reiwoldt in his first two years went 6 out of 25 and 14 out of 87

I am still in the lets get Schache camp provided Leppa's input is positive on long term prospects and we have investigated why the drop off in 2017.
 
Aug 8, 2007
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Here is McGuane's full comments:

COLLINGWOOD legend Michael McGuane has put forward a damning assessment of Brisbane forward Josh Schache.

The Magpies great says it was foreseeable years ago that the former No. 2 draft pick would struggle at AFL level — and believes the Lions were misled by a TAC Cup rule technicality that blinded AFL recruiters to the power forward’s terminal shortcomings.

McGuane on Tuesday told SEN Breakfast the Lions bought a lemon when they recruited Schache off the back of his extraordinary performances in Victoria’s U18 TAC Cup competition.

TAC Cup football is played under density zoning rules designed to avoid players bunching around contests.

Under the density rules, two key forwards and two key defenders must remain inside the 50m arc even when the opposition has the ball in the other half of the ground.

McGuane says the rules allowed Schache to benefit from extra space inside his forward 50 and concealed his inability to compete when outnumbered in pack marking contests.

He said the rule hoodwinked the Lions.

He also appeared to accuse Schache of running scared in AFL footy.

“You watch him in a contest at AFL level, he reaches for the footy at times, he turns his body sideways, he avoids contact,” McGuane said.

“Now that may be a subconscious thing that can be clearly removed from his game — and I hope so at 199cm. He needs to be smashing packs and either marking the ball to creating crumbing opportunities for his smalls.”

He said Schache is nothing like the star power forwards of recent times because he hasn’t put his body on the line for his teammates.

“They were all forward that defenders feared and teammates could trust and I reckon defenders are content going back into his space knowing that full well it won’t be them that shirks the contest,” McGuane said.

“He’s a forward who was an absolute star at TAC Cup level,” McGuane said.

“He’s a forward who needed lead-up space. He had a great aerobic capacity. He would run defenders off. He rallies to space that was afforded to him and I think it’s misleading form due to that density rule.

He said Schache’s struggles to take just two contested marks in 10 games this season can’t be ignored.

He said he would not go anywhere near Schache this trade period.

“I just don’t like what I see from the competitive standpoint,” he said.

“Josh Schache, he was classified as the next Jonathan Brown, he was going to be their saviour.

“This year, when you get to the pointy end of the season, to say that fatigue was the reason he didn’t play in the NEAFL finals campaign, I just really struggle to comprehend that.

“Lets put that into perspective, he’s 20, he played only 10 AFL games this year. The pointy end of the season is about winning a premiership and as far as I’m concerned fatigue becomes a distant memory when a grand final was there to be won. The mind has to take control. There has to be more to it.”
Can't argue with that !!!
 
Aug 8, 2007
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Interesting McGuane focuses on this year especially with the 2 contested marks comment.

Schache's 2016 return was good with 21 contested marks from 68. Contested possessions in 2016 were also ok at 66 to 82 uncontested. 2017 was well down at 28 to 64.

Hipwood went at 7 contested marks out of 30 in 2016 and 22 out of 59 in 2017.

Our own Jack Reiwoldt in his first two years went 6 out of 25 and 14 out of 87

I am still in the lets get Schache camp provided Leppa's input is positive on long term prospects and we have investigated why the drop off in 2017.
Can't argue with that either !!!!
Obviously just did not want to be there .....
 

bagwarn

Rookie
Apr 12, 2014
647
4
18
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Interesting McGuane focuses on this year especially with the 2 contested marks comment.

Schache's 2016 return was good with 21 contested marks from 68. Contested possessions in 2016 were also ok at 66 to 82 uncontested. 2017 was well down at 28 to 64.

Hipwood went at 7 contested marks out of 30 in 2016 and 22 out of 59 in 2017.

Our own Jack Reiwoldt in his first two years went 6 out of 25 and 14 out of 87

I am still in the lets get Schache camp provided Leppa's input is positive on long term prospects and we have investigated why the drop off in 2017.
Strange that we were into him and now we aren't. Would love to get him and see what be can produce. Do we have a second round pick we could use, as there is talk that the deal could be done with a second rounder?
 

TigerHardwick

Listed Player
Sep 26, 2005
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Watts traded for pick 31 ??
Did he do something Stringer style the club seems to have a personal vendetta against him all of a sudden then trade him for not too much ?
 
Aug 8, 2007
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I am starting to warm to Oscar Allen. We have a good record with Larke Medallists for starters.

In his last game for West Perth Colts who were smacked by 90 odd points by Claremont his stats were

28 Disposals ( 17 kicks 11 H/Bs)
7 Marks
10 Tackles

Draft website lists him @ 191cm but WAFL say he is 193cm.

I would rather a 193cm key forward who can leap & take a grab than a 200cm behemoth who cannot get off the ground or get to contests !!!

Thoughts ???
 

colossus

Listed Player
Sep 18, 2008
3,185
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Yeah l like Allen,their was talk he could grow a little more months ago.
He's a strong mark,and accurate kick,l don't like paying too much for Ruck/forward types,and really their must be some concern over Schache,there seems to be little interest,if he's cheap he might be worth a pick 3rd rounder.
 

Gracie

Site Immortal
Jun 1, 2005
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No news, no movement from Richmond with only a day to go.

Looks like we will retain the two first round picks. Hoping Naish does not get a bid until 20+
 

Vines

Site Immortal
Jun 9, 2008
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Taking Naish and another kid this year in the first round wouldn't be a bad thing given our list age spread.
 

Gracie

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Jun 1, 2005
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Gibbs to Adelaide for picks #10 and #16 plus later and future picks back to @#$%ton.

This might be a problem for us with Naish. As it stands now picks 10 through to ours are held by interstate clubs and that improves the likelihood that a bid would come after our #15 and #17. But with @#$%ton getting the two picks those pricks might make us use them.

Pick 10 would go to GWS for Kennedy but doubt pick 16 would go to Geelong for Lang unless there were a number of other changes.
 

Vines

Site Immortal
Jun 9, 2008
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Gibbs to Adelaide for picks #10 and #16 plus later and future picks back to @#$%ton.

This might be a problem for us with Naish. As it stands now picks 10 through to ours are held by interstate clubs and that improves the likelihood that a bid would come after our #15 and #17. But with @#$%ton getting the two picks those pricks might make us use them.

Pick 10 would go to GWS for Kennedy but doubt pick 16 would go to Geelong for Lang unless there were a number of other changes.
He's rated as a 15-25 pick so using one of our picks on him would be fine.